Recriminations & Reprimands: Showing Some Skin Just Not Enough
So, Shannon didn’t win the Hometown Hotties 2011 contest from Maxim magazine, but she did arouse a lot of commentary, professional cynosure and a few sexist cheap shots about her being in the contest at all.
Compared to recent movie scenes another Marine NCO starred in, this seems pretty tame.
Shannon is an active duty Marine NCO, and although she didn’t appear in uniform apparently a lot of people (to be fair, most of them we’ve heard from are military personnel of the male persuasion) believe she was out of line and should be NJPed. We’re not convinced. Conduct unbecoming an NCO? Hardly. Sgt. Matt Simmons (and frankly we have a very hard time using the rank) got away with a lot worse. Frankly, we think any fuss about her is pretty contrived. Pretty girl competes for Maxim, and not in uniform. Give it a rest why don’t ya?
Simmons was a lot worse, and we’re not talking about the unlikely proportion of sweaty males: any females in his pictures and video.
Now, as we said, we don’t personally think Shannon’s actions violate Joint Ethics Regulation DoD 5500.7R at all. We just really don’t see what the fuss is about, but we can see how some folks would disagree. She does say she’s an “active duty Marine sergeant” in her video, though in the written bio it says she’s a corporal. Either way, we honestly don’t have an issue with it. She’s not pimping Maxim (insofar as she isn’t saying, Hey, you should buy this magazine.) We’re not JAG officers either, though that isn’t saying much given many of the JAG officers we’ve met in the past (nothing against all of you, for the record we have some hero worship for Col. Bolgiano). Compare it to what other NCOs have done, though.
Anyway, she didn’t appear nude, nor that we can see ever appear in even a portion of her uniform. Either of those might have made a difference, as it did to Sgt. Manhart. Remember her? She was the K9 handler Security Police troop turned female TI that did a spread in Playboy, and was demoted then discharged as a result. She was reprimanded per Article 92 and Article 134, which honestly makes us wonder about the difference between then and now. Seriously wonder. We’re not talking about the repeal of DADT, but the basic standards any military member should be held to.
Four years ago, this got you demoted and asked to scream at troops elsewhere.
The court in Simmons’ case said: “We are also not satisfied, on the basis of this record, that the appellant’s statements or wear of uniform items may create an inference of service endorsement of
Picture him wearing his dress uniform jacket and no underwear, with another guy laying next to him…because that does NOT get you reduced in rank and asked to blow your trombone elsewhere now.
the activities depicted. The appellant never wore a complete ‘uniform,’ so the general public could never receive ‘visual evidence of the authority and responsibility vested in the individual by the United States Government.’ He did not voice any Marine support for what he was doing or any service views on the propriety or impropriety of his conduct.”
Now, this statement would have to apply to any similar activity, whether hetero– or homosexual. The importance, from a judicial standpoint, would seem to be making what we like to call “training films” of any kind, no matter what their sexual orientation. So, the way we see it, even if you don’t agree with “Sgt. Shannon” and her scantily clad appearance, the precedent has been set and she should be good to go. However, we’re not barracks room lawyers and we didn’t even stay in a Holiday Inn last night. What do YOU folks think?
Here’s part of the Joint Ethics Reg, which doesn’t cover paid pornography sodomy, sexual activity, fellatio putting cheap ketchup on a grilled Porterhouse or much of anything apparently else as long as you don’t, you know, appear to sanction or endorse anything.
“2–304. Use of Military Title by Retirees or Reserves. Retired military members and members of Reserve Components, not on active duty, may use military titles in connection with commercial enterprises, provided they clearly indicate their retired or inactive Reserve status. However, any use of military titles is prohibited if it in any way casts discredit on DoD or gives the appearance of sponsorship, sanction, endorsement, or approval by DoD. In addition, in overseas areas, commanders may further restrict the use of titles by retired military members and members of Reserve Components.”
“3–209. Endorsement. Endorsement of a non Federal entity, event, product, service, or enterprise may be neither stated nor implied by DoD or DoD employees in their official capacities and titles, positions, or organization names may not be used to suggest official endorsement or preferential treatment blah blah blah…”
Sound off? Should she be NJPed, or is the only shame here the fact that she didn’t win and we didn’t get to see her nekkid? No blatant hatred or rampant stupidity. We believe everyone is entitled to our opinion. That’s not true of you, if you write like a jackass (even if we agree with some of what you say.) You’ll note we didn’t use any of our normal derogatory military slang terms in this one. No mention of Fobbits, Motardation, or TOCroaches, nor any reference to someone getting sand anywhere or butthurt.
The Mad Duo can be contacted here on UTR, over on Kit Up! or at Breach-Bang-Clear. High speed, low drag celebrities of the action figure and steely-eyed snaker-eater world, the commentary of Richard “Swingin’ Dick” Kilgore and Jake “Slim” Call has been likened to a .308 op-ed to the head. They don’t like the Taliban, marplots, hippies, sissies or SNCOs and officers who don’t grasp the concept of Noblesse Oblige. Loyalty starts from the top down, assclowns. (Some folks have asked for some background on the intrepid doorkicking twosome: check out Breach Bang Clear for more.) You can join them on Facebook, unless you’re a hippie, sissy, anti-military, own any expensive show cats or are a Marine Corps trombone player.
Under the Radar is commentary. We don’t report the news; we offer our take on what happened.
21 Comments
Interesting .… personally from one AD troop to another around here … i don’t see the problem. Honestly she (in my mind) didn’t discredit her service or any DOD sister service. Actually she sat there in the video was professional, courtious, and didn’t sound like a bimbo.
I’ve seen alot worse go unpunished … granted it’s not public but regardless, she really didn’t deserve all of that. Possible slap on the wrist ok but other than that it really didn;t need to go that far.
We agree. Our point is that there are some folks ******* and moaning and saying she should be NJPed…we think it’s ridiculous, particularly given what other NCOs have done. With everything else going on (including a WAR) we think there are much larger issues that should be demanding attention and effort. Pretty girl competed, and not in uniform. End of story, get over it already.
Also: she hasn’t actually BEEN punished, that we’re aware of. We’re addressing the people that are fussing about and saying she should BE punished.
Put my vote on the “Leaveherthef@#$kalone” side.…
Amen, brother! There’s enough stuff going on not to worry about a little harmless skin!
Chief Boring
OK, so let’s stop jumping the gun here. As stated before, she has not been charged/convicted. And even if she does, she has the appeals process.
But I guess it all depends on who is in her chain of command, as well as who is sitting in the JAG chair…
Not to mention that most WM’s that look as good as she does seem to end up in the Pentagon or HQMC any way…
And women wonder why they are not taken seriously in the military and in the professional world.
@coldwarvet75– really, thats the conclusion you came to? The reason women are not taken seriously is due to societal bias.
For example it is still not an accepted norm for women to die in combat the same as a male. Another example, it is not a creepy for a female teacher to have *** with a teenage male but it is very creepy if the roles are reversed. So with comments like yours women will not begiven a fair chance.
Dued really though, you need to get out of 1975 and join us in the new century.
v/r
D’Adda
Screw the navy I’m joining the Marines! :p
The Brits have a soldier who was Miss England in 2009 as well as being a decorated warfighter. Didn’t seem to be a problem for them; why should we get uptight about it?
nice point hamchuck!
I’m not fully aware of all the rules, but I don’t think in my opinion, that she should be NJD’d for taking pics. She wasn’t in her uniform, so there’s no discredit. She stated what she did, and her position in her job. Hope she does well…
As a noncommissioned officer, you have an obligation to set the example, and you must refrain from actions that could result in a lessening of the respect those who you lead or supervise have for you. Subordinates must respond immediately to the orders of their superiors; especially those of the NCO’s over them. Never can an NCO engage in activity that could detract from that principle, regardless of how “innocent” the action might be perceived.
REALLY??? I mean cmon lets get away from the NCO professional development course book list, grow up and join the big boy world, where we play by big boy rules … cmon thats a petty *** textbook answer straight outta the J/S NCO academies
This is nothing…Look at the number of military (men and women) that compete in bodybuilding and you will see alot more than this.
I’ve seen fellow airmen post way worse photos on internet dating sites.. What the **** is the difference?
Personally, I think she should just be spanked and call it a day… I’ll volunteer.
Her actions, while not as bad as some, are still questionable. It is on the command to determine if her actions were unbecoming or disobeying an order.
In her official Maxim video and pictures published within the magazine she did not wear the uniform. She did post a video of herself in uniform though, low crawling, for whatever reason.
I do not agree with any service member, regardless of ***, putting themselves on display. I personally think it degrades the professionalism of the military. That is what we are suppose to be, professionals. Especially NCOs. Even if she does not feel that she over stepped her bounds as a professional, others do. One of the first things I was taught at MCRD was that perception is reality. What is the perception of a girl who is modeling for Maxim? Is this the image that the Corps wants for its Marines? How many CPLs, since she was a CPL at the time of her submission and shoot, died in Afghanistan leading Marines in combat? Is her actions honoring them, and all the other Marines who have died or been injured in service to their country and fellow Marines?
I have no issue with any Marine going out in civilian attire or dressing to make themselves as “sexy” as possible as long as it is within the authorized civilian attire as per the order. She is a bit out of regs.
While her actions are her actions, and her command can deal with her as they see fit, my concern is more in what the next individual is going to do. She did this, Manhart did what he did, and each of them walked away with a minimal punishment. So what will the next individually minded Marine do for the whole world to see? Will it be becoming of a professional Marine?
A couple bullets from my BP;
Promote Immediately!
Promote ahead of Peers!
The BODY of work by this Sergeant is beautiful! Don’t forget the “of Work” or this bullet will get you in trouble:).
I believe should should have kept the marines out of her personal gain. She would have been fine. When you bring the public attention that you are a marine and add that you are an NCO, you are asking for people to question your actions. She does look great and I would bet that if the Marine Core would put her in in their adds in uniform they may exceed in their recruitment of men and women. It shows that you can be a pretty girl and still be active duty member in the Armed Forces